Podcast: Yoga for Gravel Cyclists with Gabriel Benjamin

podcast yoga for gravel cyclists

Our partner in podcasting, The Gravel Ride Podcast, speaks with Gabriel Benjamin, about integrating yoga to maximize gravel cycling performance and well being. We discuss the challenges of starting new practices and the opportunity to start slowly.

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Hello and welcome to the growl ride podcast. I’m your host Craig Dalton this week’s podcast is brought to you by Athletic Greens the all in one daily drink to support better health and peak performance. Now, please tell me you’ve gone over to AthleticGreens.com/TheGravelRide to check this product out as I mentioned before I’ve been using it for a few years and it’s complex blend of seventy five vitamins, minerals and whole food source ingredients really gives me some peace of mind that. I’m getting on top of some of mine nutritional requirements every day as a gravel cyclists you tend to go deeper than maybe I have the fitness for a really appreciate Athletic Greens ability to pick me up and support my daily dietary needs with things like zinc for muscle recovery and better sleep magnesium for nervous system recovery function and even beats and ginger ginger. Helping to Reduce Inflammation and beats to help improve circulation and speed up recovery I, feel like every glass pointing me in the right direction. So whether you’re looking to boost your energy levels, support your immune system or address gut health. Now’s the perfect time to try athletic Greens for Yourself. Simply Visit Athletic Greens dot com slash the gravel ride to claim a special offer. Just for our podcast listeners, you’re going to receive a free Dijk three K. to wellness bundle with your first purchase. That’s one year supply of Vitamin D added to the delicious comprehensive daily all in one drink again, declared that offer just visit. Grand. Dot Com slash the gravel ride?

Now, let’s talk about this week’s guest Gabriel Benjamin. Gabriel is a cyclist and a yoga teacher that I invited on board to talk about Yoga for cyclists like many during the pandemic of thought outweighs to just be better to myself. Yoga was one of the things that came up along with meditation and I really wanted to get my yoga advice if you will from someone who is an actual cyclist. So I discovered Gabriel’s work online and later discovered he’s got DVD’s all kinds of. Stuff focused on Yoga for cyclists. Additionally, he started to provide personalized yoga instruction videos privately for clients which really appealed to me because I. do feel like as gravel cyclists were taking a different type of abuse maybe than a general cyclists. So it was great to get Gabriel’s opinion on the types of things I could do in a short amount of time to really improve my body function in support of my goal of being better gravel cyclist. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with. Gabriel I, hope you take a lot out of it. The great message that I took away was just do a little a little can really do a long way. A lot of times. The idea of yoga gets wrapped up in gotTA travel to a Yoga Studio I’ve got to dress a certain way and the in the class may not necessarily meet my needs as a cyclist. But today we’re kind of in the golden age of content and were able to kind of get personalized. Recommendations that really work for us from the comfort of our own home. So I’m really hoping to adapt and Adopt Yoga regime that embraces this. Let’s just do ten twenty minutes every day rather than thinking we’ve to go out and do a block at wants and think, Gabriel does a really good job of espousing that idea and kind of embracing newer athletes into the idea of Yoga and how can support you as a cyclist. So with that, let’s jump right into my conversation with Gabriel. Gabriel welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Craig I’m I’m excited to dig in as you know, I’ve sort of dabbled in Yoga for time. But by no means have, has it really been part of my weekly? Practice but well, it’s like to start out by learning a little bit about your history as a cyclist and in this case, I’d love to learn about kind of how you discovered yoga how the to blend together for you. Right on Well. I’ve been cycling for quite a while I was never really an athlete as a kid I was kind of Unhealthy in a little chubby asthmatic but I played a little bit of tennis. And I wasn’t very good but I wanted to get more fit so I took up. Cycling just on my mountain bike just mountain biking around the road. And You know I remember in nineteen. Ninety five I like road five miles, and then in nineteen, ninety, six, I rode. Ten and I was like, wow, I could read eventually twenty miles men nineteen ninety seven I got.

00:05:05 – 00:10:06

So into cycling that I stopped playing tennis. And started to ride every day I. got my first road bike That my my local Ken. Pass down to me super old school just gigantic years. You know like the forty two two. Small chain ring and You know the brake cables that came out through the top and whatnot lugged steel frame and I just loved that thing and I wrote it every day. From April through October and I was a senior in high school at that point and I was I lived kind of far away from. High School. And So as doing this ten mile commute. And then one day in the middle of October I got cut off by a car. And smashed into the car I hadn’t really had. I’ve had a couple tiny little accidents but like at never really had a bad crash in I, I got really injured. From going into that car I, cut my face in net quite a bit going through the window and I broke three bones in. A hand. And my helmet. Glad it was wearing one. And it was. It was a rude awakening to to how Injuries. The sport could be but I fortunately don’t remember it. been conscious and. As soon, as I could ride again, I was I was so into getting back to it. And that was that was telling me for how much I love the sport. So even though it’s not necessarily a great thing that happened it’s kind of a fond memory ’cause I lived and If, anything. More joyful to to get back to my bike. So I rode a ton that you. Hear actually got to do contract the the crash. Kinda. Made me want to quit school and they let me do contract P.. E. For two units because the vice principal was a cyclist. Educational specialist talk to them. Said Hey. This kid wants to drop out of school and he’s really into cycling. Maybe this is one way we can keep him in and I had an AB schedule. And I just cycled. Supposed to do ten hours a week but my shortest week was eleven in my biggest week seventeen miles. So into it and they gave me to a pluses which brought up my GPA. Hadn’t been soak. It that point because I was a little bit unfocused on two dimensional things I really like three dimensional things with his life cycling and Yoga are good for me but I just kept at it ever since when I was eighteen I started racing road bikes I like writing off road to but I never I never did any events. Offroad joyrides and I raised for years. and a few years into racing I was using way too big year. and. I was starting to get really good at getting some results them. I just started to limp. Because my my back and my sciatic pain was so bad. That I couldn’t. Even get out of bed in the morning it was awful and So. I had been exposed to to yoga from my mom who had been doing it for a long time. And she had me doing a little bit when I was eleven years old that had done a year of independent study. and so I did yoga is my pe ’cause. I wasn’t in sports back then and kind of took to it but I never kept it up and then when I was when I was older House cycling and I was so all the time she encouraged me to to get back into it. So I did a little bit of Yoga. Before I was injured. But when when the season would come on at stop taking class and just do all the forward bands, all the stretches, all the leg stuff but none of the back extensions which I never really bikes until I learned how important it was to keep my back stable. So because of my injury, I decided to take teacher training never with the intention of teaching but just to figure out my back is it was it was so bad and so disheartening and it was it was killing the thing that I loved the most. which was riding my bike and so I learned a lot about my cycling my form I was always getting out of the saddle on my right leg, and that was causing my right side just to be so tight and my sacred pulled so far against my spine that the joint, the sacred the joint was just completely jammed in my.

00:10:07 – 00:15:14

fourth and fifth lumbar were really affected by that as well. So in doing the teacher training. We went over all the stuff that I always avoided a hamstring strength back extensions muscle tone for the gluts in the low back. and. I figured it out and it’s not that my back has been perfect ever since but when I feel it. When I feel the pain coming on like I know exactly what to do to nip it in the bud. So very blessed to say that I’ve stuck with cycling ever since and stuck with a yoga to be able to keep that going. And your that’s an amazing story I love when people are addressing their own needs through some sort of practice or or vocation even, and it turns out to be super powerful to get them back on the bike, and then it also becomes a huge part of their lives. So you went on to actually do some teaching of Yoga and point, right? Yeah I got to. Teaching pretty quickly. Back than this is this is a long time ago I was teaching in two thousand. and. Back, then there wasn’t that many regulations around it and I didn’t do a full teacher training to certification just did a weekend intensive and then I did many weekend intensive and eventually I certified in a bunch of different levels of practice but I was teaching for several years substituting teaching Ed small organizations just as an intern back. Then the rules were like it an intern you could you could teach. So and my mom when I was eleven, she wasn’t a teacher to really regular practitioner. But then when I was seventeen, she certified to teach and not that much time after that she’s like Anita sub took the training go teach my class and then her friends did that and it just very naturally built where had sub place in the met teacher would quit a few months later in the students in like May and they called me up said, hey, we got a regular slot for you. So I was in the beginning of my teaching our really focused on cycling racing. and. I was like well, I, need money all I’ll do this to to pay for my racing tires. And and then eventually I decided to do. Teaching fulltime because the racing the racing never really was for me I thought it I should do it because I loved writing so much and it’s a great excuse to train train train but I’m more interested in helping people than trying to destroy myself a destroy. Others so That’s that’s a bit of my history of teaching yet. Thanks for that. Gabriel, just for the purposes of the listeners I don’t want to assume everybody knows what? Yoga. Is All about how would you summarize the beginnings of the practice and how yoga came to be Will Yoga is a tradition that that evolved in India and for Many many thousands of years it was just a meditation. Practice and and kind of a lifestyle of sort of living in the Osram, and there’d be a guru that would teach you know just a very small number of disciples and it was a very different life than what a modern yoga has evolved into So before there was an emphasis on postures a sitting in either Bis or cross-legged meditating and. Eventually they started to do postures to make the back stronger so you could sit longer meditating. And in the last couple hundred years they started add more and more postures it. It started with certain teachers in India Indian teachers bringing in British military routine. That’s what the the common sun salutation is is based on kind of a military routine that was adapted with Yoga poses And adding gymnastic stuff. Just when it came to the west end up monetize then more and more poses infusion things got added to it. So at this point. There are still people who are doing that very traditional sort of Guru Schramm type of of Yoga but at this point, it’s You know very much intertwined in the the health and fitness world and there’s a tremendous amount of overlap with doing poses with a lot of functional training and things like pilates and stuff like that. and to the listener if if the Yoga seems a little bit airy fairy to you, end, you end up checking out some of the stuff I do if you don’t want to call it yoga if you want to call it stretching or core and mobility deal free to.

00:15:15 – 00:20:17

Do that if if that makes more comfortable I mean Yoga can be a spiritual practice. but what it is in modern times is is completely up to the practitioner. Yeah I. Think it has mentioned. I’ve definitely dabbled in Yoga. I did quite a bit over the years. And a lot of times I get thrown off by. I’ve got to go do a class and it’s going to be an hour long experience and I feel a little bit. Embarrassed because I’m not very flexible and generally speaking every yoga instructor I’ve ever been in front of his been super generous and kind and understand that you only need to do what your body is capable of at that moment in time and it’s always been a very comforting place in it’s been something I’ve enjoyed a ton but I haven’t made a regular practice and it’s been interesting as I’ve gotten older just my body’s screaming back to me as a cyclist that I’m probably not doing enough to kind of. Round out my body and my physique and the positions that I’m in. So it’s been interesting. I’ve particularly around this pandemic I’ve come back to the idea that developing a yoga practice endorsed stretching practice is really going to be critical to my long term health and success as a cyclist. Yea there’s. There’s a great quote from a famous Yoga. Teacher. And she says, you don’t have to do yoga every day just do yoga on the days you want to feel good. Of. Excellent point, and thanks for bringing up about taking class and having it be before like sixty minutes ninety minutes. Classes awesome and if you’re if you’re up for that or if you’re already taking class and I’m all about it in highly encourage that but I also encourage doing a little bit getting started incrementally just like you do five miles on your bike and then ten in the twenty and then thirty in eventually more. Approaching. Stretching and core mobility routines. The same way works really really well in fact, diving headfirst into stuff that is maybe to level or or you know a little bit more than than what you’re ready for especially if you are going to not rest which the teacher is usually suggested, you know. You, beat yourself up in your inner dialogue like quote unquote not being flexible enough than it. It can be a rough experience and Yet, sometimes, teachers are a little bit. Mean and expect a lot from students but usually they are as you put it patient and compassionate in it’s it’s our own inner critic that lacks the patient. Anson compassion. For, cyclists, you don’t need to be super flexible to get a ton of benefit from stretching, doing the the muscle conditioning for your back that we lack the position for most of us even the more upright versions of the sport you know like road and track and time trialing especially is like really flat back early kind of flat down flat stem gravel mountain bike is going to be tilted out more, but we’re all still leaning forward in kind of rounding our shoulders over the bars. And so that position of the spine has called selection. and. That’s one of six natural positions that the spine can be in. It’s also designed to laterally bend and twist and to extend back and so always just doing one of the spinal directional movements than the spine becomes very unbalanced and the muscles around the spine also lack well rounded muscle. Tone to to have long-term stability. Yeah, I. Think there there’s probably not a listener of this podcast hasn’t gotten off their bike to open up their garage and and felt like they could not stand fully erect because they’ve just spent four or five hours out on the bike curled over in the same position. So I, it’s very easy for me to see that we need as athletes to be kind of going the other direction and making sure we’re flexible and we’re kind of counter-balancing that that. You were just describing. Absolutely yeah. One of the things that that you can do I mean, I’m into practical tips for taking things you learn from Yoga into your normal life. So typically when I’m around cyclists Their US, when when you’re not on the bike, you’re still using your bike posture like your slouching when you’re at the coffee shop and you just have sort of caved in chest rounded shoulders If you work at a desk, you’re probably going to be doing that a lot too.

00:20:17 – 00:25:00

So just having like really good posture. which feels good. Once you’re used to when you’re not used to it, it doesn’t feel good because there’s a lot of muscle tone you need to us just to to sit up or stand up straight feels like work. Just sitting up like know you should it’s total work, but but when those muscles get tone. It’s effortless. So or not effortless, but it it’s it’s like the difference between. Doing a climb that you’ve never done before maybe never even reading your bike upheld before my God. This is the hardest thing ever, and then after you’ve done it for years and years and years, you develop your rhythm, there’s an effort, but it’s kind of you can get into a zone where there’s this sort of effortless effort and Yeah. Having really good posture. When you’re on your bike, you have to do what you need to do to be on your bike. You’re not on your bike though it’s good to not have the spine still be met. Shape of around over the the spine naturally should have very light s curve to it in that keep both the below mid and upper back a lot more healthy. Yeah. When I think about the position I’m in as a gravel cyclist when I’m descending technical stuff in the drops and a half to lift the bike, lift the front wheel over something it’s it’s a it’s a quite a tough position when I compare it to mountain biking. With a flat bar when you’re a little bit more upright, it’s just easier to get the front wheel off the ground. So in gravel cycling, I do feel like my low back has taken a lot more abuse because it it just kind of there’s more requirements when I’m in the in the moment as you said, there’s a requirement for me to navigate and throw my bar over a rocker a log and get around that or I’m GonNa Crash. But I need to acknowledge that almost trauma creating for my body and find some solace in some other part of my life to kind of get back that motion. Yeah The the strengthening process is a really interesting process because the body like literally like breaks the muscle down but then rebuilds, but it’s you know the training makes a stronger but. If. The train combined with the recovery if you don’t have recovery in with Yoga or diet stuff sleep than you could train a lot but then actually weaker. I imagine with gravel cycling, your you have different benefits you can go faster. You know on climbs, but then the bumpy sections or if you’re you know most of my friends who ride gravel usually take it on things that are designed for travel bikes A. So imagine a yoga routine for gravel writer including the wrists and shoulders neck. To address the extra impact as well as the plastic legs gluts Loewe. Bag. Would be. a very helpful to integrate. Yeah. I think you’re spot on there and what I appreciate talking to you and watching your videos as a cyclist that is a yoga practitioner. You also understand and appreciate that most likely you’re gonNA continue their training routine it’s going to be we’re not well rounded athletes. Most of us we’d like to ride five six days a week because it’s such a passion for. US and your understanding of that and your modification of your yoga classes to appreciate like I don’t need a leg heavy yoga practice because I’m getting a lot of legwork. There’s other things that I need and I appreciate that you as as a yoga for cyclists can address that and not focus on those muscle groups and focus on the other things that are really need to strengthen my overall body. Yeah absolutely that was. One of the things that I noticed when I was starting to introduce my cycling friends to Yoga classes is they they felt really good stretching and just getting in different muscles. But they they mentioned like there’s no quads stretches or there’s very little there’s a lot of. Quad strength. And I was like, yeah, this it’s interesting week stretch the hamstrings a lot in. Yoga, we don’t tell them very much. We strengthen the quads a lot in Yoga. We stretch them a little it. Really it really depends on the teacher if you’re taking class with the teacher adds them in a lot than your experience might not be this. But just from from what I’ve observed having taken many many different styles of Yoga class.

00:25:01 – 00:30:08

Years. There’s there’s a lot of quad strength and which is awesome. If you can’t ride. So like if I go on vacation with my family and I don’t bring my bike over the winter I’m doing quad. Strength Yoga poses all day every day and then when I get back to my bike I’m I still need to build up my lungs my legs are good But if you’re riding five six days a week, your quads are thrashed and then just to roll into a class that’s you meant to help you recover and then just thrashed them even more. You know it’s like It’s a bad idea to get stoked on a recovery tool, but then just use it as another way to beat your head against the wall. And you know cyclists love to suffer and they love to grind, and so people can get really into that and get really competitive even if not with other people with themselves, and so you know one of the principals I try and drive home to athletes and cyclists. Particular is Do Your Yoga to get better at cycling don’t do your Yoga to get better at Yoga I mean if you happen to become more flexible. and. Get really strong at certain poses then than that’s awesome but You know if if you for what I did in the past, that was a big mistake was I tried to get really good at cycling when I was racing and I also is trying to do splits in these crazy back bends and I succeeded that but I know I overdid it and I paid for it in the end and You know I. I applied my competitive focus my sort of driven focus that that worked for training for racing to yoga and I achieved a lot of things but I also injured myself doing yoga and Got to a point where I realized the redundancy of of certain attitudes So I teach from experiencing like the you don’t have to worry about not being flexible if anything, you’ll probably feel really good in the stretches if you can get over that mental dialogue of that it’s quote unquote not good. and. You don’t have to worry about you know achieving things in in Yoga. The main thing I would encourage people to achieve is consistency. Keep showing up even if it’s just for five minutes, stretch ten minutes stretch by deep breaths here and there know just keep showing up to doing something for your body because cycling is brutal and very taxing and and I want people to be able to do it for a lifetime and you need to need to put. something. Back in the tank, not just food I think those are there’s a number of points in there. Anything you know anybody who digs into. Kind of performance training of cycling over the last fifteen maybe even going back twenty years there started to be this infusion of it’s not all about the bike. There’s nutrition there’s recovery they’re stretching. There’s Yoga. Other things are critical components to your success and I think sometimes as recreational cyclists that tackle big events we forget that we need to be good to ourselves and sometimes I know speaking from experience I get hung up as I said before on the idea that I’ve got to. Go take a yoga class, but the reality is we’re in this kind of golden age of content and I know I will put a link to your site and a lot of the great content that you put out there on Youtube and other channels for people to just kind of pop in and do. As you said, a ten minute session you have the forty five minute sessions there. But doing a ten minute session is just going to help if you can that. Consistently. Yeah I. I would say. Ten minutes six times. A week would be better for you than doing one sixty minute session. Now, if if because of your lifestyle your schedule, you can only take that one class and get the sixty minutes and that’s going to be great compared to nothing but just regular maintenance. You know think if you think of it as Kinda like drinking water like you drink water to help your performance. It’s better to take sips of your water versus like you don’t get to the point where you’re almost in a cramped shut a whole bottle So you know there’s there’s many ways you know Yoga’s is. Just, like another form of of fuel enrichment for our body and for the mind as well you go to. A session and take some deep breaths. You get a lot out of that in fact if you. Only focus on the breath don’t even try to much in the stretches. You might get more out of that than the other way around really discourage people to to huff and puff while they’re trying to stretch muscle toning exercises.

00:30:10 – 00:35:01

And one other point I’d like to make. When I’m discouraging people from being competitive. In Yoga I don’t want to discourage you from being a competitive person. I JUST WANNA say save competitive edge for win it matters. Because I didn’t do that when I was. A competitor and that was a big mistake. Yeah absolutely. The other I thought was cool as you know when we first started talking I, learned about your personalized videos that you’re doing for people and and that was great and I thank you for sending one over for me. What was cool is there was a back and forth about you know what we’re my issues, what was herding what do I feel? I’m lacking in flexibility or in my practice and you’re able to kind of come back with a short session for me that allowed me to address the things that are going on in my body and that to me I think it’s like the first step in me integrating these little bits of yoga back into my life more consistently rather than holding out for the once a month that I might go to a yoga class. So can you talk about how you kind of construct those personalized videos? Absolutely So. When I when I came up with my first yoga for cyclists shops in the night produced a dvd I was thinking okay. What a cyclist in general need they need work on their legs and they’re back in a little bit of core work a little bit of bone density work. With things like playing can stuff but You know having talked to a lot of athletes. Everybody’s got a different issue. So whereas I can produce general stuff for the general public. That’s great If I really want to help an individual than I have to you know work with their individual issues what’s tight for you is possibly different than what’s tight for the next gravel racer even though you’re bear likely to benefit from some of the same things and also the injuries that we get involved in you know you have a fall and then the right side of your body’s never the same or you know. You always are doing this one activity and your left leg is stronger and so if if you don’t. Focus on everyone’s uniqueness than there’s only. So far you can get. With working on your body you know. For some people, they just need a lot of stretches for the legs. For some people, their backs destroyed for some people it’s their neck i. mean I work with high-level cyclists and one of my friends who I did a video series with. He’s been a professional road cyclist mountain biker and don’t be his neck was steph from the size simpson sequence. Every told me that now he could look over his shoulder on both sides. And whereas before the videos he. Could look over one side and I was like Oh my God I didn’t realize it was that bad like the number look over your shoulder especially when you’re riding on the road jump hop super crucial for her. Safety and. It also. It. My neck sometimes is stiff. I’ve not had a part of my body that hasn’t heard as a cyclist but the typical stuff for me is more like my By hips by low back in my knees. So do a lot of conditioning and hamstring strengthening and work on my ankles and different stuff it all comes from the ground up. you know that’s that’s not going to be what what the next person needs. Some people are incredibly tight in their thighs. My mic wads are really flexible. They always have been but my my growing super tight. So it’s really all unique animals. And so we get the best results by having You know personalized practices need for us? Yeah. That makes sense I mean. Cycling is such a repetitive sport in many ways that you know. It’s quite easy to get your body into a routine and a position because you’re riding the same bike all the time that. has some negative consequences if you’re not counter-balancing them. Indeed. Yeah, and You know the the the mental things that? We, the mental traps we find ourselves in as well as. We get into maybe obsessive thought just like we obsessively pedal over and over again and obsessive thoughts beneficial.

00:35:01 – 00:38:54

You know that drives us to keep writing and keep working on. Improving can be really good but obsessive thought. were always beating ourselves up Is is really not so good you know and. A little bit of Yoga a little bit meditation just just taking carry yourself. You know just anything you do to take care yourself. It really good to to counter those obsessive negative thoughts that we can find ourselves in a I’ve had a lot of friends who were very high-level athletes and you would think that they are you know perfect in every way if you look at the picture them in the magazine or the side of the other but really the sometimes they’re. Way Too hard on themselves in can lead to some really dark mental states in you know in some ways you know high level athletes are just as tough as iron but in other ways, they’re very fragile in I would say normal amateur people Could relate to that most likely as well and it’s Everybody deserves to take good care of themselves especially, if you put yourself through something rough. Yeah, I think that’s a great point to end on. Gabriel hope for the listener is a little bit different show for me this week but I hope for the listener the sort of point they’re taking home as like you need to take care of yourself. In. Order to keep riding further and further and your success at a at a two hundred mile gravel race is probably more related to self care than it is to the actual training sometime. So it’s all a balanced. So Gabriel, thanks for shining a light on yoga for cyclists I’ll definitely put links to all your social media and your website. So people can check out some great content you have out there and consider getting personalized yoga video from you. Thank you so much. This has been a really really fun conversation I just wanted to ask one quick. Question I sent you a picture us on the socials of a fire road in the Lucia mountains down in sort of Carmel big. Sur area and I was curious if you down there I haven’t you know all the writing. I’ve done in the Carmel area which I’ve certainly been down in that neck of the woods has been on the road. Get I’ve done the sort of bike touring down highway one all the way down to La on a handful occasions but it’s funny. You mention that because I’ve been obsessing over this idea of creating a largely gravel route from San Francisco to Los Angeles. So I’d love to pick your brain at a later point if you’ve got any trail data that could help me kind of piece together some of the the midsection there. I definitely do and I. Just. WanNa let you know one of my favorite places to camp is this place called? which is you could you could use that as a starting. Point to do so many good both road and off road rides, and so I’m hoping that maybe in the future we can. Enhance our friendship and do a little. Camping trip together and probably throw in Yoga too. If you’re down I look forward to Gabriel. Thank you are A. Big thanks to Gabriel for all the insights into Yoga for cyclists and big thanks to athletic grains for sponsoring this episode of the gravel. Ride podcast I, appreciate you spending some time with us this week. If you’d like to support the podcast, feel free to share a rating or review those go a long way in the podcast world or visit us at by me a coffee dot com slash the gravel ride to check out other ways you can contribute to what we’re doing. Until next time, here’s defining some dirt under your wheels.

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